neil: well, this is a fox news alert. we do not know, but we think the fed just took the punch bowl away. we did not think it would raise rates, and they did not, but we did not know they would let out a potential zinger about many mortgage rates rise. saying things are still dicey, but let's just say less dicey for the economy, less dicey for ben bernanke and company to indicate that they are going to slow down something called " mortgaged-backed securities." those are the pieces of paper that essentially coskeep the cot of your mortgage down, and they have been buying a lot of them.

the gravy train is over. to our own report out in chicago. phil, what is the deal here? >> well, if you have not locked in those rates, you had better start doing it. they definitely give us a last call. i would not say that they took the punch bowl away. the day of buying these mortgage-backed securities, these days of ultra0low rates are over -- ultra-low rates are over. a major, major change in market psychology, and like i said, you had better start moving if you are ready to refinance. nercil: if you are right, and i

never had any reason to doubt you, then mortgage rates are going to go up. how much? >> it is going to start up slowly. i think we have seen the lows. i think you'll see a percentage point may be in the next few months, and it may be dramatically higher as we get into next year. now, this is not all bad, neil. this may stimulate people who have been putting off buying houses and putting off trying to get that low in interest rates before they finance. neil: which cut have caused the run-up in stocks today, right? -- which could have caused the run-up in stocks today, right? >> right. the problem is the long-term implications, which really do not know yet. when you give this economy so much punch, there is always a hangover. let's just talk the hangover is light or way down the road. neil: phil flynn in chicago,

thank you. today, big worries about how much information could be collected on you. the house bill calls for the creation of healthcare id cards, and critics explain that these cards could be used to access the person's bank account to determine their ability to pay. one woman with the hudson institute is very worried about this. what bothers you the most? >> i guess what bothers me is in the legislation right here, section 163, it says "enable electronic funds transfers." it says that the medical i.d. cards have to have checking account information in order for the government to be able to take money that is owed out of your checking account and in order to give you credit in to your checking account, and in order to do that electronic process, they need to know what your bank is and what your

checking account is, and i think that is dangerous information and unprecedented information for the federal government to have. it does not have it in any other steere. neil: all right, you are saying with that information they could do quite a bit -- hit does not have it in any other sphere. >> it does have your social security number, but it does not have your social security number now, and for most people, that checking account number is private. for those that have direct deposit paychecks, the federal government has their checking account information, but that is just as a condition of employment. even with the irs, when you can get a tax refund back, you have a choice of putting your checking account information, but you do not have to do that. if you can have the irs mails you a check instead. there is no other purpose -- emailed u.h.f. instead.

we all know what can happen to data -- mail you a check instead. neil: it is legion with abuses. i that this was going to be a moot point, anyway, that the government house was going to pick up the health-care gap, and we are not there by a longshot. tapping into these accounts seems superfluous. >> what they are saying is that they need to have it to make sure that people are eligible for health care, because, as you know, with these health affordability credits, you can get credits up to 400% of the poverty line, and that is somewhat of a discount on premiums, too, so how much everybody pays is not the same for everybody, and the median income is around $50,000 a year, so there is a huge number of people who have variable premiums, and maybe variable costs to play under the new plan.

neil: diana, thank you very much. it is eyeopening. one strategist says that all of these big brother feeders are way over done, that the government is not going to be tapping into anyone's banking account -- these big brother fears are way overdone. >> the government already has access to all of the information through the irs. any time you write a check, on the bottom of that check is your checking account number and routing number. also with dmv, and many of us back online. millions of americans use credit cards, our financial information is out there the and this is simply a mechanism to just verify that people's incomes are what they said they are determine what level of subsidies they receive for the government to help them purchase health insurance. neil: they do have a lot of information at their disposal,

including the information you mentioned, but now, we are going to be adding to it to make it these guys on steroids, making it so that they are underwriting of our health care. that is of a scary, is it not? >> well, steroids are illegal. i do not have a problem with this. so much of our information is out there, and technology is not necessarily a bad thing. doctors are saddled with claims processes that are under arrest for them. there was a pricewaterhousecoopers study that said that doctors spend 40% on the claims process -- doctors are saddled with claims processes that are onerous for them. neil: concerned about privacy issues and keeping people's privacy and their records just back -- they would be -- just that, they would be concerned about going into some sort of omnibus health care operator

stands, whose leaders might have perfectly good intentions, -- health-care operators hands -- operators' hands. >> there is always someone who could do the wrong thing. neil: why do we not less than that and not give them the power to sneak into our counts? >> identity theft. the government has absolutely nothing to do with that. neil: giving them an opportunity with a large-scale health-care program. >> technology can provide so many benefits. it can be secure, as well. when you look at the cia, that is a government agency. they have the ability to track the taliban in afghanistan and listen to a phone conversation -- you don't yes, but they do not access to their checking accounts. -- neil: yes, but they do not

have access to their checking accounts. i am being facetious. i think this is a wrinkle that has come out in the health-care debate. people are saying, "wait a minute. what do you mean you are going to track my ability to warm my wherewithal to pay a bill?" all of a sudden, i am in legal action with an entity to prove otherwise. >> there has to be a process in order for the government to determine whether people are accurately identify their income. neil: you know what? you know what? i love you dearly, but your note that this is -- you know this is a cookbook. this is "in the twilight zone." i want you to fast forward to the end of that show where robin soderling is there with the cookbook -- this is "in the

twilight zone -- "the twilight zone." >> there are people losing their jobs. neil: cooked books. tara, thank you. >> i called your office, and i was told i could speak, and then i was lied to. >> i am sick of the lies. i do not like being lied to. i do not like being lied about. >> when are you going to restore our country back of the way our founders had it according to the constitution? [cheers and applause] neil: that seemed to go well, folks. senator arlen specter holding not one, not two, but 3 town hall meetings. what does he make of this? >> what i want to focus on is

that they're not necessarily representative of america. neil: oh, really? does the rnc chairman michael steele agree? " what do you make of that? >> i am laughing. who are the representative of? this is the kind of craziness that this has come to in this debate. you have got the president who has a town hall meeting, and then robert gibbs comes out and talks about how peaceful it was. yes, it is great when you stack the room. you have a line that you have to run to to get in. neil: we do not know that they stacked the room. i do not know what happened there. i do know what has been happening at these other hearings go. the guests are being -- some pretty dicey affairs. leading democrats are saying

these are all stage, astroturf. what do you make of that? >> this is part of the craziness that we're hearing from the left on this issue. they are trying to obfuscate the fact that the american people are ticked off, as one of the participants said yesterday, and then very concerned, and for the leadership in this country to go on national tv and say that folks are being an american, they are not being un-american be an -- say that folks are being un-american. they are being very american and saying what they feel. the reality of it is you cannot sit back and say that people are not going to be concerned about the federal government having that level of access to their personal information. neil: michael, let me ask you this. >> it is something else when you require it. neil: i have to get these questions out, because these are

the charges being made, and you are the big cheese of the republican national committee. have you stacked or told people to is that any of these meetings -- told people to stack any of these meetings? >> no. they are flat out lie. they are wrong. we are not busting in folks, like the democrats are with seiu members. we are not trying to disrupt these processes. in fact, i have been on shows to encourage americans of all stripes to go and do something. this is a national debate, and it amazes me that folks are now running around, who were calling for debate when we are talking about the war, now want to stifle debate when we talk about health care and our economy, so the reality is we are not doing any of that, and

it is just crazy lies. neil: obviously, this is where a lot of the vitriol comes from, and i wanted to get your reaction. there is the former alaska governor palin who calls these panels death panels. is that proper? >> i think it is proper because it is within the context of what people are seeing in some of the legislation that is floating around out there. when you talk abut panels that are going to be imposed, they will be making life and death decisions. they will be making decisions on whether you get health care or do not get health care. i think that is appropriate. now, how you characterize it is a matter of interpretation, but it does not change the fact that what is in a lot of this legislation is stuff that is pretty onerous. you 0.1 of these out, neil, that in the bill is now saying -- you point it one of these out, neil.

-- appointed -- you pointed one of these out. information you would not normally be required to give to the federal government, and that is not being talked about. why is that not part of the discussion? oh, maybe it is because the president has not read it? neil: i have no problem with them looking in the records. michael steele -- >> i tell them to put on my neighbors'. neil: all right, michael steele, rnc chairman, good to see you. >> good to see you. neil: another fox news alert. protesting. i want you to think about this number that was just out moments ago. it is a big one. $1.27 trillion. that is trillion with a t, and that is going higher. this is where the deficit is

going, and we still have some months ago. one cannot help but feel this is why tax hikes are not that far off, and why a lot more people are not going to be able to escape it. one man is angry about this big government kool-aid. arizona as it is actually getting smaller. arizona is cutting taxes -- arizona's is actually getting smaller. welcome, governor. thanks for coming. >> hello there. i am glad to be with you. neil: why these tax cuts? why now? many argue that your state is not in a position to do that. why? >> it will be for a much better economy to help businesses to grow in arizona and create jobs, and in the end of it all, of course, it will reward those

businesses that have stuck it out with us, so we have worked very cautiously and, of course, very carefully to determine how we are going to arizona and out of its economic crisis that we are facing, and this all plays to the solution, and it is a good solution for arizona. neil: i am looking at some of the details, governor. you will be running a deficit? >> yes, for the next three years. we have, of course, planned to use stimulus dollars with no strings attached. neil: but do you still, governor -- ok, but do you still have to have a balanced budget every year >> no, absolutely, we have to have a balanced budget -- balanced budget every year? >> no, absolutely, we have to have a balanced budget. neil: all right, so what you take away with the income tax reduction, personal income tax

rates cut by at least six points, 6% top rate cut to 4.54%. but you are increasing the sales tax to 6.6% in 2010 and 2011 and then reverting back, so you obviously have to shuffle some things around, right? >> well, of course. we're going to get a temporary sales tax, and that is going to help to bridge it. by the time does come together in the next couple of years, we are hopeful that the economy will turn itself around, and we will continue to enforce our budget reforms, and our tax reforms, and we will turn the state of arizona around. i would hope that arizona would be a leader in the country in regards to this. neil: all right, will any of this effect your eligibility for stimulus money coming from on pulse spam -- from uncle sam? >> no, i do not think so. we want to use all of the

stimulus money, the ones that do not that stimulus strings attached to it so we are not in the position to have to continue certain programs, but we have accepted $1 billion this year in stimulus dollars. neil: thatcher. ok, governor, as it turns out next year -- gotcha. ok, governor, if it turns out next year that it is still bad, what are you going to do? >> we are not anticipating that. we really think we have a plan that is going to work and will really aggressively move this plan forward. we will probably have to do more spending cuts. we know that. but in the effort to take this opportunity to turn things around for the future of arizona, we will complete our mission. neil: you are one of the few states doing something like this, governor. if it works, your profile rises dramatically among republicans nationally. have people told you that? >> this is not the first time

that we have faced a budget deficit. we turned america account around several years ago, and we were the best in the county when we turned it around after being the worst in the country. we'll go good having you on. >> keep your eyes on it. neil: we will, governor. thanks. all right, school supplies. (announcer) this is nine generations of the world's most revered luxury sedan. this is a history of over 50,000 crash-tested cars... this is the world record for longevity and endurance. and one of the most technologically advanced automobiles on the planet. this is the 9th generation e-class. this is mercedes-benz.

you have high blood pressure... and you have high cholesterol. you've taken steps to try and lower both your numbers. but how close are you to your goals? there may be more you can do. only caduet combines two proven medicines... in a single pill to significantly lower... high blood pressure and high cholesterol. in a clinical study of patients... with slightly elevated blood pressure and cholesterol, caduet helped 48% reach both goals in just 4 weeks. caduet is one of many treatment options,

in addition to diet and exercise... that you can discuss with your doctor. caduet is not for everyone. it's not for people with liver problems... and women who are nursing, pregnant or may become pregnant. to check for liver problems, you need simple blood tests. tell your doctor about any heart problems... and all other medications you are taking... or if you experience muscle pain or weakness, as they may be a sign of a rare but serious side effect. how close are you to where you want to be?

[captioning made possible by fox news channel] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- neil: all right, we are getting word that the obama administration is sending officials to go to a prison to talk about taking some of the people from guantanamo bay. they are heading to a state prison in michigan to check the place out and see it that is

backed -- to see if that is going to be a cozy home for some of these guys. money in the big apple. the problem is, it is not free. it is your money, stimulus money at that, and in new york, they are giving it away for school supplies. children in a certain age range are eligible for $200 as long as they already get food stamps or have welfare. could this be why stimulus is being slowed? presidents of the americans -- the president of the americans for tax reform joins us. what do you make of it? >> the whole idea for the government to spend money to create jobs or make us rich mrs. it that the government has to take a dollar out of the economy through taxes or debt to put it somewhere else. if you take it from someone who earned it, and you give it to somebody who did not. at the end of the day, you do not have more dollars or jobs.

you have just move money around, for political reasons. this is why it has been getting worse ever since they pass the stimulus package. neil: this is just expanded welfare, right? that is really what it is. >> bulk stimulus was a series of $700 plus. what was on the list that they were spending money on? in the last 20 years, these were ideas that the federal government said no to, that the city's said no to, the private philanthropists said no to -- the city's -- the cities said no to. they had been rejected by the federal government, which spends on almost everything, the state governments, the city governments, the philanthropist, and the projects that none of them wanted to do went into the stimulus. this is bottom of the barrel stuff. what did you expect?

neil: i always try to give the benefit of the doubt and try to think it through with their logic, and part of it is not right. 200 dollars for school supplies, salas said the staples and officemax max get money -- $200r school supplies, so people like staples and office max get a boost. >> they handed out over here from taking it from there. if he were to take a bucket of water from one side of the leg and pour it into the other side of a way, do you think you have a deeper lake at the end of the process? -- if you take a bucket of water from one side of the late -- lake.

>> i am glad you asked me that as a key question. that was a nightmare. -- neil: i am glad you asked me that s.a.t. question. that was a nightmare. ben bernanke and others say they see an improvement. do you think the administration, the congress, will read the improvement that ben bernanke and his buddies are seeing that the stimulus is working proof that it is getting the desired results, and grover norquist is the one who is not? >> ok, they passed the stimulus six months ago. the markets were excited about this idea of stealing money from one person and giving it to somebody who is politically correct, you should have seen things improving instead of getting worse the last six

months. what has happened in the last six months? americans have turned against cap and trade, and against the government takeover of health care. both of those massive health care programs look less likely to pass. neil: are you saying, grover, that is what the markets have been improving as of late? because big government is not as big as we could have seen? >> yes, because three months ago, it was obvious they were going to have massive taxes on energy and that the government was coined to nationalize the health-care industry and restore the health insurance industries and take away your right to see a doctor and add trillions of dollars to government spending depending on who's bill be were talking about, and that is very frightening to the markets and to anybody thinking about investing. how can you think about investing when you do not know the future prices of energy? when it becomes clear that that is less likely -- the market will more likely to better.

all of these demonstrations, the tea party demonstrations, the challenges to the legislators out there, when people see that on tv, they say, "union the government might not destroy the energy industry? -- you mean the government might not destroy the energy industry or the hospitals? maybe the market will come back that does not have an?" neil: grover, thank you. good seeing you. -- the market will come back and that does not happen?" he ran off with his secretary! she's 23 years old!

- oh, come on. - enough! you get half and you get half. ( chirp ) team three, boathouse? ( chirp ) oh yeah-- his and hers. - ( crowd gasping ) - ( chirp ) van gogh? ( chirp ) even steven. - ( chirp ) mansion. - ( chirp ) good to go. ( grunts ) timber! ( chirp ) boss? what do we do with the shih-tzu? - ( crowd gasps ) - ( chirp ) joint custody. - phew! - announcer: get work done now. communicate in less than a second with nextel direct connect. only on the now network. deaf, hard of hearing and people with speech disabilities access www.sprintrelay.com.

neil: all right, on nancy pelosi, we are getting word about a letter along with barney frank the house financial services committee chairman. the letter is to tim geithner, and it essentially says, "der tim. do not think about allowing these bonuses going out to the banks rescued to the tune of 200 dollars billion." -- dear tim." we do not know if that has included firms that already pay that money back to the government. i cannot get it from reading the letter. basically, ms. pelosi as saying it would not be a good idea. not while they are still getting this money.

there are those that have returned the money so they can dole out these checks. we will see. >> she says, "i do not want government-run health care. i do not want you meddling in[a3 the private marketplace, and keep your hands off of my medicare." [laughter] true story. >> sometimes the very people who are saying, "make sure the government keeps their hands off of my health care, but, by the way, do not touch medicare." that is ironic. >> do you work for us? or do we work for you? neil: folks are trying to make their point at these town halls, but are they talking down to a lot of seniors at these events? one man says yes, and he is not happy that seniors are being treated this way. jim, thank you for coming. >> glad to be with you, neil.

neil: do you think that seniors are being kind of trivialized here? >> yes, it is a shame. the president was trying to make a little bit of a joke there, but that is pretty demeaning. and another town hall meeting, he said, "well, we do not have enough government workers to cover every person." this was a very, very important piece of legislation, and seniors are being talked down to. look. senior citizens -- medicare is a government program. yes, it is, but seniors have paid into it, and whether you are for it or not, it has been a lot for 44 years. senior citizens have paid into it for 44 years. they have paid their dues. neil: that is a good point. let me ask you, jim. when you talk to your friends, your colleagues, your own views,

what is it the most fear? when people get angry, and we see these outbursts at this forums and town hall meetings, what is your biggest anxiety? >> the fact that they are going to pass a massive overhaul of the system. the system needs reform, but, look, neil. we have the greatest health system in the world did yes, it is inefficient. yes, it is expensive -- we have the greatest health system in the world. yes, it is inefficient, but you do not throw the baby out with the bathwater. they said, let's start from there. let's not start from scratch." who can blame them? the bill is over 1000 pages long, and apparently, a lot of these legislators have not read this. neil: so the target and the

focus should be on them not reading it, not the folks like you questioning them for not reading it, though not individually you, but some of your colleagues being the ones who are featured in these press reports with the crazy questions and crazy rage, and the uncle fester comments. does that bother you on that level? >> yes, it does. seniors have paid their dues. by the way, i would dare say that more seniors have probably read this bill than the members of congress. neil: i think you are right, because you guys are running circles around me when it came to the bill, but nonetheless, they are still talking about incoherent rage. what do you think of that? >> well, that is unfortunate. a lot of people are out there yelling and screaming and using bullhorns. by the way, that is being done on both sides, and people say, "well, you folks right of

center, you seniors, you are being led around by the knows." that is not true. we're getting on the internet -- led around by the nose." there are these technological advances, like the internet, that we did not have when i came to washington years and years ago, and they do not like the fact that members of congress are really talking down, whether it is the president, whether it is senator arlen specter or senator claire mccaskill to have the audacity to say at a town hall meeting, "well, the bill is a very long, and we parcel it out to staff to read." well, i understand that, but the fact is this bill is too massive. it is too expensive. they are going too fast. seniors are saying, "slow it down a little bit." neil: jim martin, thank you. >> thank you, neil. neil: lawmakers pushing the

president's health-care plan facing a backlash at the polls prove an independent pollster from suffolk university think so. -- backlash at the polls? an independent pollster thinks so. >> i believe it is. we have seen voter anger among elderly voters once before back in october 2008 when most of the older voters who were natural mccain voters were losing support and supporting barack obama by wide margins in october 2008. the differences between the september 2008 polls and the election, something happened. from september 30, the dow dropped from 10,000,850, and then it was a 2400-point drop in 10 days -- the dow dropped from 10,850.

neil: it is probable. some of our biggest source of cause celebs nt parties in between have been initiated by older folks who were just ticked off -- were parties in between have been initiated. >> older folks will have a bigger piece of the pie, and that is because presidential elections draw the biggest turnout, midterm elections less so, so if you constantly have that big block in november, and then the other is smaller, older voters will have a bigger say in how the election turns out next year than they did previously. neil: they are showing up in a greater percentage. some politicians to talk down to them or dismiss them on either

side risk a great deal of brushback, right? >> that is right. you have one-third of the u.s. senate up for reelection in 2010. u.s. 25 states with u.s. senators races and others, and all of the congress are out. the candidates need to articulate directly to older voters exactly what the difference is between what they are proposing and what they are voting on. neil: very interesting stuff, david. i appreciate your coming on. >> you are welcome. neil: all right, ben bernanke says things are getting better, and a democrat who says he knows why a. it is not then. it is barack. -- who says he knows why. it is not ben. ♪ free credit report dot com! ♪ that's where i shoulda gone! coulda got my knowledge on! ♪

♪ vo: free credit score and report with enrollment in triple advantage.

neil: all right, we just contacted nancy pelosi says office, and after the laughter, they talked about it -- contacted nancy pelosi's office.

telling the treasury secretary to go after those firms paying out a bonus is still on the public died. in other words, those who never not returned taxpayer bailout money, so that presumably would not include august firms like goldman sachs that is also getting some controversy for talking about $11 billion in bonuses, goldman would not be included in that. anyone still on the public dime would. it was a nice phone call, actually. ben bernanke stated the recession is over, top economists definitely saying it is over, but my next guest not won over. he is a professor. he says we are not out of the woods and that we should not even think about cutting off the stimulus. did you have you. neil: do we want to pause this stimulus think? very little of that has gotten out, and let's say that that is

the reason -- i do not agree with it -- but let's say that is the reason. the economy is doing well enough for even ben bernanke to say, "cool it." >> well, neil, the first point that you disagree with is a good one, and if i can just get you to concede that is what prevented a depression and got us out of a recession, the economic team's division. neil: we know that nearly 10% of that stimulus money has been spent, and less than that. a great psychological effect, or it may just be a typical recession that lasts 1.5 years or a little more in this case. we're coming out of it. that is just how cycles go. end of story. >> certainly, there is some truth to the fact that recessions sometimes and, but you cannot ignore stabilizing the banks or stopping, losses --

stopping home losses. neil: did he do that? where did they create jobs? >> some of the jobs are temporary, but to be sure, they created jobs. you can look at small-scale, where you look at the nba. neil: wait a minute we have lost more jobs. for you to say that jobs are being created, that has not happened. that maybe down the road, but not yet. >> on a long-term scale, we have seen jobs created. neil: mark, mark, mark, you are a professor, but i am a nerd, and we have lost jobs. i am telling you. we have that job losses. i am telling you is.

some are saying the world is flat, but it is around. nei>> absence of intervention of obama, there would be even fewer jobs, -- absent intervention of obama. neil: how do you know that? if i had not done this, i would not have that. >> every economists predicted the jobless rate would be even higher. this is much better than predicted. the stimulus is working. the obama plan is working. neil: wait a minute. the obama administration itself predicted it would not get higher than 8%, and it is about 9.4%. before you start canonizing this guy -- wait a minute. before you start doing that, the economy is not generating this because of stimulus, right? >> uh-uh, come on, neil. that is absurd. every major economist has

conceded that the obama administration has prevented us from moving backwards. neil: no, no, every major economist has not said that. every major economists looks at history, and we're coming out of 1.5 years. let's say you are right. let's say i give you this and you are right, and 10% of the stimulus money from the first stimulus has done it, then we can stop the spigot. we certainly do not need to spend the rest of the stimulus, and we certainly do not need more stimulus, right? >> we may not need to spend 100% of it, but there are long- term educational projects and long-term health projects that are about long-term stimulus. neil: we do not have that money. >> the money is not a schiavo. it is a rope. neil: it is a rope, all right. around your neck.

. . %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

neil: welcome back, everybody. i want to show you something. this is 1,018 pages. that's what it looks like. this is the healthcare bill. this is the house healthcare bill as it stands written. that's 1,018 pages. now, over here to me, beyond this large pile is an apple i-phone pamphlet, sort of a guide, you know, how you can use the i-phone. with a couple of little foldouts. i'm just wondering if i told apple to do 1,018 pages for a guide how that would go over and then the government to do the apple guide, how that would go over. radio talk show host mike slater

thinks washington should at least try the latter, but they don't. mike, what's going on here? >> neil, it is good to hear from you. that i-phone guide is good to have if you have an i-phone. if you are you are an american citizen, this is my pocket constitution. it sits in my backpocket. sometimes i are run it through the wash by accident. that bill there, you need a forklift to bring it in. this pocket constitution, my favorite pages here is the declaration of independence. these pages freed us from a tyrant, from a country, and more importantly founded a nation based on the right to the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness, and this is 1,300 words. neil: i'm going to be less profound. if you want to transfer your jazz library to your rock library, you can drag via the round device in the middle.

that sums it up for me. my point is here, this is the whole apple guide. i'm not trivializing this to say this is what you could put healthcare on, but couldn't we try? take a look at this again. over 1,000 pages devoted to explaining a healthcare bill that no one understands and it is written for lawyers by lawyers, who have no idea even amongst themselves what the hell it means, that's a bad start, because you know what, the i-phone, that puppy works and i barely even needs this to make it work. this, i don't know, and that's what worries me. that's what worries me, mike. >> you got to watch out. the worldwide federation will be all over you for wasting those trees. james madison said in federalist papers 62 -- neil: did he have an i-phone? >> i don't know. i will tell you this, he said it would be little avail to the people if the laws are so voluminous that they can't be

read and so incoherent that it can't be understood. little avail to the people. if he saw that bill today on your desk right now, neil, his head would explode. neil: do you know not too long ago i got my parent' first mortgage when they bought a home in 1954 and it was all of five pages. today, a closing statement is sort of like this, and why and how we got things so complicated, that's the issue, because this is endemic of our times, and i don't think it has to be. >> neil, i like how you bring it to a real story. just the other day, rachel called into my show and she just entered the eighth grade. i asked her what would happen if she had to write a book report and didn't read the book and she said she would get an f and she deserves an f. we expect more out of our 8th graders than we do out of our congresspeople and they get $200,000 dollars a year and get

to fly around in their own jets around the world. neil: coming up, we will have more on the mess in new jersey and what is happening there and everywhere. see you then. imodium multi-symptom relief combines two powerful medicines for fast relief of your diarrhea symptoms, so you can get back out there. imodium. get back out there.